#11
(08-24-2022, 01:12 PM)rudyvey Wrote: Being a brush maker myself (probably one of the very early ones...), I never understood what the benefit of this business model is. You want a brush from me, you talk to me and we design your custom brush together, and I make it for you. Simple...maybe I do not sell as much as others, but it satisfies me that the customer gets what he want.
And I have deep respect for no fuss artisans such as you.

Sent from my V2040 using Tapatalk

TommyCarioca and DanLaw like this post
#12
(08-24-2022, 05:13 PM)Ti22 Wrote:
(08-24-2022, 03:11 PM)Moriarty Wrote:
(08-24-2022, 01:12 PM)rudyvey Wrote: Being a brush maker myself (probably one of the very early ones...), I never understood what the benefit of this business model is. You want a brush from me, you talk to me and we design your custom brush together, and I make it for you. Simple...maybe I do not sell as much as others, but it satisfies me that the customer gets what he want.
But what should you do when the demand far exceeds your capacity? I don’t think anyone has found an ideal solution for this, and there probably isn’t one. Like some others, Wald has opted for a low-publicity drop method so that if someone really wants his brushes they can follow his instagram closely and they’ll have a decent chance - at least as much as anyone else, and better than most. It’s fair and democratic, and it at least stops a few collectors monopolizing his supply and then telling everyone about these marvellous brushes you can’t get, and it helps stop the scalpers who buy everything and re-sell for a profit.

If he took orders then his order book would quickly get out of control and customers would be waiting a very long time to get their brushes - like Varlet, who had to stop accepting orders for at least a year so they could catch up. And then he would be deluged with complaints and either have to deal with them or ignore them so he can get on with making the brushes. It’s much better to restrict people ordering in the first place.

If the surprise drop method puts some people off then it’s because they aren’t as desirous to buy one as others are, so the people who most want one are the ones who get them. Isn’t that a good and fair way to restrict demand and ensure the limited supply goes to the people who most want it? If there was a better way then I’m sure Wald and others would love to do it, but the reality is that he does not produce anywhere near enough brushes for everybody to get one. And you can’t expect him to increase his production or invest more money into his business - I’m sure it’s something he does in his spare time and it is up to him how much time he wants to spend making brushes and the quality he makes them to. We can’t demand that he mortgages his home and borrows money to buy more equipment and space, take on staff, and expand his business - so he would be working for the bank and no longer for himself - and who knows if the high demand for Wald brushes will last forever? I imagine making brushes is something he enjoys doing as a commercial hobby, and he would like to keep enjoying it.

I can’t see what Jannik could do differently.

One vote here for the Wolfman style wait list, put your name down and then when it comes up choose knot, handle etc.

No one misses out and is fair to everyone involved.

Yes, there is a wait and no instant gratification but what is this obsession with these "Drop" events?
That’s not so different from what Varlet did, and they get a lot of complaints because their order list got way too long for them to handle.
#13
(08-24-2022, 04:46 PM)DanLaw Wrote: Beg to differ. Contrived demand generation
I don’t buy that at all. You are implying a negative motive without any evidence for it, which is unfair. And it makes no sense - how would he benefit from artificially increasing demand when he is not making and selling enough brushes to meet that demand? Why can’t it simply be that he doesn’t make a lot of brushes?
#14
I am pretty sure that most of the modern days brush makers could easily keep up with their work load, unless they also make their own knots.
In the first years I was making brushes, I had not much or any competition, maybe Cooncat Bob (and he sent me quite a bit of brush work as he liked more to make his razors) and Elite Razor. I had weeks that I was working every free minute in my shop to keep up with the brush orders. During this time, I also traveled for my real job a lot. So my brush making happened over the weekend. I doubt that a customer had to wait more than two or three weeks for his brush. It is just a different approach - FIFO.
From 2011 on I also made several Limited editions for B&B, sometimes up to 100 pieces. So I could not complain of not being busy.... Next to my "normal" orders, I made these LE's and always delivered before my set time.
In these busy years, my average number of brushes (with out any LE's, or special group buys) was about 8-10 a week. But as I said, I did not make my own knots, but used often hand made knots from Shavemac in Germany. I had to hire a lawn service as I did not have any spare time left for my yard work.
Then all the new makers showed up and they started to do wait lists, drops etc. Personally I doubt they made/make more brushes than I did, so this kind of selling is different approach for me.
Sure, if you make a larger number of brushes for a group buy, LE etc, then you have to estimate the time it takes you to do this job (like procuring the handle material or casting handle blanks, ordering the knots, making sure you have the right sized drill bit etc,) -  this, maybe,  would be more like a drop.

This is not meant to be a rant or so, and also not to discredit any other makers out there, I just have maybe an old fashioned approach of making a product.

Rebus Knebus, DanLaw, jags009 and 1 others like this post
#15
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2022, 07:14 PM by Moriarty.)
(08-24-2022, 06:18 PM)rudyvey Wrote: I am pretty sure that most of the modern days brush makers could easily keep up with their work load, unless they also make their own knots.
In the first years I was making brushes, I had not much or any competition, maybe Cooncat Bob (and he sent me quite a bit of brush work as he liked more to make his razors) and Elite Razor. I had weeks that I was working every free minute in my shop to keep up with the brush orders. During this time, I also traveled for my real job a lot. So my brush making happened over the weekend. I doubt that a customer had to wait more than two or three weeks for his brush. It is just a different approach - FIFO.
From 2011 on I also made several Limited editions for B&B, sometimes up to 100 pieces. So I could not complain of not being busy.... Next to my "normal" orders, I made these LE's and always delivered before my set time.
In these busy years, my average number of brushes (with out any LE's, or special group buys) was about 8-10 a week. But as I said, I did not make my own knots, but used often hand made knots from Shavemac in Germany. I had to hire a lawn service as I did not have any spare time left for my yard work.
Then all the new makers showed up and they started to do wait lists, drops etc. Personally I doubt they made/make more brushes than I did, so this kind of selling is different approach for me.
Sure, if you make a larger number of brushes for a group buy, LE etc, then you have to estimate the time it takes you to do this job (like procuring the handle material or casting handle blanks, ordering the knots, making sure you have the right sized drill bit etc,) -  this, maybe,  would be more like a drop.

This is not meant to be a rant or so, and also not to discredit any other makers out there, I just have maybe an old fashioned approach of making a product.
Wald make their own knots, though. Same as Varlet and Declaration Grooming. They’ve all had similar complaints, regardless of how they release their products. I’m sure they all wrestle with this and would do it a better way if there was one.

I don’t think we have any idea what else Jannik does or likes to do on his weekends and evenings, so how can we say how many brushes he should be able to produce? Maybe his real job requires weekend and evening work, but If he is spending time with his family instead, what is wrong with that?

I’d also add that the level of detail and refinement on Wald handles, like Varlet, is extremely high. I’m sure they take a lot longer to finish than most other artisan brushes. He could make more if he made them less refined, I’m sure, but that’s not what he does, and his brushes are priced accordingly. It looks like he is making more nylon brushes lately, and his last drops only had two or three badgers, so maybe that’s one way he is trying to make more brushes without reducing quality.
#16

Living on the edge
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2022, 07:23 PM by Tester28.)
I guess what I am saying is that if he took 4 months and rocked up with, say, 30 badger brushes
that may work.

But showing up with 2? And 8 synthetic ones.

I don't care enough about the brand to investigate deeply but I'll be surprised if he makes his
own synthetic knots.

At the end of the day, he can do whatever he wants, and I can be as critical as I want, within the
rules of civil discourse.

I think the Wolfman guy has shown it can be done. And people don't mind waiting for. good product.

DanLaw, Ti22 and FloridaCreekIndian like this post
#17

Posting Freak
Peachtree City, GA
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2022, 07:33 PM by DanLaw.)
(08-24-2022, 06:13 PM)Moriarty Wrote:
(08-24-2022, 04:46 PM)DanLaw Wrote: Beg to differ. Contrived demand generation
I don’t buy that at all. You are implying a negative motive without any evidence for it, which is unfair. And it makes no sense - how would he benefit from artificially increasing demand when he is not making and selling enough brushes to meet that demand? Why can’t it simply be that he doesn’t make a lot of brushes?

There's this arcane theory called supply and demand....
#18
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2022, 08:02 PM by Moriarty.)
(08-24-2022, 07:28 PM)DanLaw Wrote:
(08-24-2022, 06:13 PM)Moriarty Wrote:
(08-24-2022, 04:46 PM)DanLaw Wrote: Beg to differ. Contrived demand generation
I don’t buy that at all. You are implying a negative motive without any evidence for it, which is unfair. And it makes no sense - how would he benefit from artificially increasing demand when he is not making and selling enough brushes to meet that demand? Why can’t it simply be that he doesn’t make a lot of brushes?

There's this arcane theory called supply and demand....
That’s irrelevant. He isn’t upping his prices such that the demand falls until it equals his supply. And I’m sure people who couldn’t get one of his brushes went and bought one from another brush maker instead. His prices have stayed the same. He is only making a few brushes - that’s all this is. We are not entitled to demand that he makes more brushes than he makes in the time that he chooses to dedicate to it.

mrdoug likes this post
#19
(08-24-2022, 07:22 PM)Tester28 Wrote: I guess what I am saying is that if he took 4 months and rocked up with, say, 30 badger brushes
that may work.

But showing up with 2? And 8 synthetic ones.

I don't care enough about the brand to investigate deeply but I'll be surprised if he makes his
own synthetic knots.

At the end of the day, he can do whatever he wants, and I can be as critical as I want, within the
rules of civil discourse.

I think the Wolfman guy has shown it can be done. And people don't mind waiting for. good product.
I agree it would be nice if he was able to offer more badger brushes. I’m as disappointed as anyone. And, like you, I just stopped looking for his drops and trying to log on at the drop time (and still failing to get one). Even when he made only badger brushes they were still almost impossible to get.

Regarding Wolfman, I would also point out that he raised his prices from $150 to $500+ without changing the product, so that’s part of the story too.

Unfortunately there are quite a few things in this hobby that are sought after and become next to impossible to obtain. But there’s other really good stuff that is no problem to get.

DanLaw likes this post
#20

Posting Freak
Peachtree City, GA
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2022, 08:17 PM by DanLaw.)
(08-24-2022, 06:13 PM)Moriarty Wrote:
(08-24-2022, 04:46 PM)DanLaw Wrote: Beg to differ. Contrived demand generation
I don’t buy that at all. You are implying a negative motive without any evidence for it, which is unfair. And it makes no sense - how would he benefit from artificially increasing demand when he is not making and selling enough brushes to meet that demand? Why can’t it simply be that he doesn’t make a lot of brushes?

(08-24-2022, 07:54 PM)Moriarty Wrote:
(08-24-2022, 07:28 PM)DanLaw Wrote:
(08-24-2022, 06:13 PM)Moriarty Wrote: I don’t buy that at all. You are implying a negative motive without any evidence for it, which is unfair. And it makes no sense - how would he benefit from artificially increasing demand when he is not making and selling enough brushes to meet that demand? Why can’t it simply be that he doesn’t make a lot of brushes?

There's this arcane theory called supply and demand....
That’s irrelevant. He isn’t upping his prices such that the demand falls until it equals his supply. And I’m sure people who couldn’t get one of his brushes went and bought one from another brush maker instead. His prices have stayed the same. He is only making a few brushes - that’s all this is. We are not entitled to demand that he makes more brushes than he makes in the time that he chooses to dedicate to it.

There you go; clearly you correct. Question is what was the point of posting?


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)